PersianFire

Here I decide to bring up a new conversation about religion; this is not like as previous discussions.

We know that pork is forbidden in Islam; personally I don't like to eat pork regardless of religion, because I think it is nasty, and fatty.

If you don't believe in religion:
I like to mention that pork is not like a drink, you don't make harm to others by eating pork, and it didn't have any profit for the prophet to forbid people from eating it, so what was the reason on that time/??

I would be glad if you share your point of views, and try to convince me the either way. You can also bring jokes for some break, go to youtube and search for Pork and Cock. Thanks every body

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“Every rock and tree and creature, has a life, has a spirit, and has a name”

Filip.S.

Not eating Pork is not a Islamic law but more of a Jewish law. We all know that Islam is a cheap copy of Christianity and Judaism. So Muhammad pretty much copied some Jewish laws and outlawing pork is one of them.

Still the question remains why Pork is outlawed in certain religion and culture. The are several theories for it. Ones says that Pork was a precious meet and that only the Kings and Tribe leaders could eat pork. Similarly to Caviar. So Pork remained a sacred or special meet however during the century it become more of a forbidden meet than most wanted.

Of course we have heard the old story about how pork is most filthiest animal in the world but this not quit true. Pork has no less or more disease than any other meet. Indeed Pork is more useful than let say Lamb.

Muslims can not really proof scientifically why Pork meet is forbidden beside saying "Allah says so, so it is.."

The point is that in today's world eating a Pork steak is harmless and safe and if one believes God forbids eating Pork than the question remain why did God even create Pork?

Allah wants to punish me for eating 4 slices of bacon with my breakfast? Well who cares?

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PersianFire

You don't believe in religion as I know you in forums.
But the question still remains, if is not Islamic law, why is forbidden by Jewish law? What was the reason? Did it have any profit for someone?

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“Every rock and tree and creature, has a life, has a spirit, and has a name”

Last Breath

Thank You for the interesting thread,
Its about time we talked about different things!

My 2 cents:
Medically its been proven that Pork meat is amongst the meat that brings about -and hosts- the most deseases (also with regards to its blood content)...
Just google it and there are LOADS of articles on this.
How they eat garbage, faeces -even their own- and basically theyre scavengers by nature! They eat everything and anything!
All that, eventually end up in our bodies!

Other than the effects on the body, We also shouldnt neglect the affect of the food we eat on our personallity...

But Islamically:
Im not sure exactly why/when the actual command was given but one reason could be because we are told to slaughter animals "islamically" => Zebh.
And this means cutting the neck veins so that the animal dies the quickest and in the most painless way, but most importantly (for us) so that it would be halal (6:121).
Now, other than the fact that pigs have no neck!
In the ayah before (6:120) it said:

وَذَرُواْ ظَاهِرَ الإِثْمِ وَبَاطِنَهُ

Az gonahe zaheri va bateni parhiz konid...

This explains the next ayah (6:121) => Az zebhi ke name khoda bar an nashode, nakhorid ke esyan ast...

So The Open/Apparent Sins are the ones that we know the reasons behind why it has been forbidden. Like Oppression, Lying,...
But the Sins that are "hidden" (bateni) are those which we have limited knowledge of (the reasoning), like: eating pork, blood, etc. (another question could be: why is eating/drinking blood haram? )

I really recommend taking a look at Tafsir Almizan ... Very useful for explaining the Qur'an using the Qur'an itslef!
Brilliant!

Last Breath

(by the way, not all of the above post is from Almizan! The shortcomings are from myself)

I would like to point out something in the end though,
even though this is partly among the things which we still dont understand or may not know the exact reason behind it, it doesnt mean that Islam is like this as a whole!
All of the islamic rulings have a definite reason behind it, most of which we (humans) have come to know. But the ones that we dont YET know, doesnt make it lack reasoning.

I wont even go there;
that all the Pleasure of obeying THE Loved One* is to do it just because he says so!
The reason behind it is just the cherry topping..

*ofcourse, after believing that this being exists using 100% reasoning and Logic

Filip.S.

Persianfire as I said previously Islam is a cheap copy of Judaism and Lastbreath demonstrate is clearly. Here is the Jewish version of his reply.

"There continues to be a debate among various theories about the purposes and meaning of the laws regarding kashrut (kosher).

Traditional Jewish philosophy divided the 613 mitzvot into just two groups - laws which have a rational explanation (mishpatim) and those which do not (chukim)(bateni).

Some Jewish scholars have held that these dietary laws should simply be categorized with a group of laws that are considered irrational in that there is no particular explanation for their existence. The reason for this is that there are some of God's regulations for mankind that the human mind is not necessarily capable of understanding. Related to this is the idea that the dietary laws were given as a demonstration of God's authority and that man should obey without asking for a reason."

Knowing that I look at everything with eye of reason and don't believe there is a God and Muhammad can not be his prophet I must ask then why Jewish tradition prohibit eating Pork? Since I denounce Jewish God also there must be a cultural or tribal reason behind it. This hidden reason as Muslim and Jewish have is as unreasonable as the idea of A creator.

There are some questions that will remain unsolved but we have the choice to make a decision in regard of it validity. And the question remain if you eat a PORK steak today will you get sick? And the answer is no.

Off Note: Although this discussion is in regard of Pork one must also take in consideration how ridicules the idea of religion is. When men created religion and was faced with question that he couldn't answer he made up a new law and called it hidden laws and only God knows why and in this case Muslim gone farther and said questioning God it self is a sin.

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Last Breath

Well, there are concepts that some may never comprehend.
Such as the concept of Submission, Love, etc. with regards to a deity.
There are Logical grounds and reasoning to the submission that one has towards "God".
Like I said, the main issues and those which are the most important are covered using Logical proof and rationale.

The subject of 'Hidden Sins' can only be fully understood by "believers". Because its application is amongst the ones who "believe":

The few commands that remain (so called 'Hidden Sins' not to do), are those that are there to differentiate the believers who truly Submit and those who are just plain greedy. I mean what difference does it make if one knows the reasoning behind why a prayer is 2 rakats or 4 ?

These commands are there to see who can break their pride, and accept something not because THEY believe so, but because their Master has said so . . . This is a sign of TRUE belief and PURE devotion.

Again, we're not setting Logic aside! Theyre all interdependent.

Filip.S.

I have no problem with the above statement as long this remain a personal matter between the believer and his/her God. I step in when your believe becomes part of my life. Example: Muslim can't / shouldn't eat pork. I can accept that but in country like Iran you can't even buy Pork as christian or atheist. Even if the butcher shop is owned by a let say christian. This is when your believe in your God becomes part of my life and at this point you will encounter oppositions such as my self.

Now we can say Iran is different because the regime is corrupt regime that is not really an Islamic regime. However looking at the whole Islamic countries you find many different laws that are based on there believe and the none believe must follow.

Don't get me wrong Christians, Jews and etc ... are not better at this point I am opposing religion as whole and not any particular one.

So at the end of the day eat and drink what you (as a believer not specific you) want but do not tell me I am have to do the same. If I chose to not follow your God as IF God exists let him/her/it be my judge not you.

Again I must say I am looking at religion as whole and not individual basis.

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Last Breath

Not only you, no one tolerates a belief when it interferes with their life.
But just because a country doesnt sell pork meat, does that make it interfere with the way you live or make you uncomfortable?
I mean, every country has certain rules. That not all people agree with . . . But this one is more of a "luxury" so I dont see how that would be such a big issue.

No body is telling anyone what to do or not to do and no one is judging anyone! (i do not know where you got that impression from)
But lets put it this way:
Its God telling the believers.

And that was the question of the thread - What is the reason behind it?